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The press releases of the final four episodes are finally available on the spoiler page.

Frankly, I'm sick of it. The ending of it all as depicted in The Deconstruction of Falling Stars (501) is not the ending of a story that says one person can make a difference, as JMS has been saying. This is the ending of a tragedy.

The moral here is that 'the bad guys always win.' Earthforce gets their hands on Shadow skin and weapons technology, with predictable results.

Sheridan surrenders to Earthgov, and is expelled from Earthforce for the 'crime' of overthrowing an illegitimate government. Excuse me? This is not the message any truly lawful government should give to it's armed forces.

Clark has been defeated, but so what? The replacement is almost entirely as bad. Even 500 years into the future, Earthgov is performing the role of the Shadows, trying to move out and take over by force. Dispite the best efforts, of the characters, the future is on rails and cannot be changed.

I note with interest that the cynics among rastb5m are often derided and otherwise harassed, but the information I have found almost entirely a vindication of what I have been saying from day one.

I've had enough of Babylon 5. Period. I'm going to spend the time I used to watch B5 for something much more productive: reading books. I've removed all my web bookmarks, my fanfic collection, and all the other various things that I have collected this year. Good riddance -- I will use the extra disk space for something worthwhile.

Up to ItF was good, but I can't stand the aftermath, or what I see as JMS' condescending and holier than thou attitude towards fans.

Bye, guys. Enjoy yourselves.

"Up to ItF was good, but I can't stand the aftermath, or what I see as JMS' condescending and holier than thou attitude towards fans."

I was going to respond politely until I got to this part. Let me put this to you plainly:

You are an idiot if you take these spoilers at face value, and an equal idiot if you think from this you know how it's all going to go down.

You don't know what SiL is about, since that hasn't been released in any form, btw, not even synopses...and for some time now I've been deliberately leaving some info out of the synopses *specifically* because people like you, who look ahead and write off the shows forthcoming, piss me off no end.

All I can say in conclusion is that your analysis of what's coming in the storylines is SO off-course, SO ill-informed and wrongheaded that it's hardly worth addressing. You've not only jumped to conclusions, you've jumped right off the cliff. Maybe, rather than being prejudicial, you might actually want to *see* what's there before making a judgment about it. This is no different than the fundamentalists who pass judgment about a film based on what they read about it, rather than first-hand experience.

Hope that wasn't too condescending....or the little gift I dropped into "Deconstruction" for folks who read spoilers and then dismiss the show as a result.

jms

OtherSyde is actually the better book of the two, in my view.

It's Getting Dark I shelved when I came up with a better story...which I will write in that wonderful moment when I have sufficient time. About the only extracurricular project I can slip in now on a fairly regular basis is a play I'm working on....

jms

Fm: KEVIN P. KENNEY

I still find myself semi-surrounded by people that religiously spoil themselves, watch, then rag on B5. (I don't spoil myself, except by accident: i.e. TV Guide) I'm now hearing a lot of "what's left for season 5" lamenting. I say, 'trust jms - he knows', but it's not enough.

So is there anything, IN GENERAL, you're willing to say about season 5. I.E., there will still be some big space battles, that the level of intensity will still go up, that more effects doesn't just mean more virtual sets, etc. Just something for me to point to and say 'believe'.

Thanks,

KpK

There's really nothing you can tell these people that will work. They will always doubt and say it's doomed...then see what comes along, and go "...oh..." and then the next thing will happen, and they'll do it again, on and on. When Stephen came in, when Michael went out, when the shadow war ended, when we got year 5...I'm more or less used to it by now.

Give them something to believe?

I did.

The fifth season.

Either it's there, or it ain't...and anything I say doesn't mean a damned thing, since there's always somebody who'll counter, "Well of COURSE he'd say that." The show stands on its own. Always has. Always will.

jms

From: Josh Ehrnwald

Hello!

Have you heard about the sequel to "A Canticle For Leibowitz" due out in November from Bantam Spectra?

It is entitled "Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman", and I've heard that it was approximately 90% or so completed at the time of Mr. Miller's death.

I had heard for some time that he had been preparing a sequel to this great work (quite a viciously-cyclical one, as well), but hard facts were slow in coming until I happened by my local Border's and beheld the new trade reprinting of "Canticle" replete with an advertisement in the front cover for the sequel.

The cover art truly intrigues me, as I am wondering if this might indeed be a prequel to the novel, it being possibly very difficult to construct a follow-up story taking place after the original, but welcome nontheless.

What are your thoughts regarding this book?

-Josh Ehrnwald (a/k/a "Leto III")

I don't know enough about it to form an intelligent opinion, so all I can do is buy it when it comes out and see if it's any good or not.

jms

Question/Msg/Plea to JMS

Was it alwasy part of the orig story arc for Ranger Marcus Cole to die? Why must he? You have created one of the most fascinating and charismatic characters since Spock! and your choice of Jason Carter to bring him to life was perfect. He (Marcus) is witty, charming, exuberant, irreverant, dedicated, loyal, dangerous, mischevious not to mention darn right appealing. (I love the lit quotes). You said once you enjoyed writing for him, why kill him off? Death is soooo permanent - this delightful character can never be seen again. Besides - its a terrible thing to do to Susan - adding to the list of people lost to her & this one a direct result of her being alive - she's alive because he's dead! I know it makes a great scene - but - Garibaldi's defection wasn't 'real' - but Bester's programming, granted he (Bester) had a good reason - however - a more powerful statement w/have been a real defection. Franklin saved Garibaldi using that alien machine w/o killing hilself - Marcus s/be able to stabilize Susan w/o dying. If Susan needs a revelation couldn't it have been done w/o Marcus dying? Couldn't someone 'help' Marcus using that alien machine ? He really deserved to win the girl in the end or at least have the chance for her to say 'your a nice guy but not my type' or something. He could then continue his adventures as a ranger - a little sadder - a .little wiser (someone once said 'sometimes having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting') but not bowed - he's too much of a romantic for that. Sorry for the length and thank you for letting me get this off my chest - I'm not sure I'll forgive you just yet - I really enjoyed the character and am rather upset we'll never see him again - except in re-runs, no new adventures, revelations about who he is (sigh) - not sure why he caused such a strong reaction. Whatever the reason - I don't think I'm the only one who finds this dashing, romantic ranger has become one of their favorite B5 characters. Again - thank you for listening to my 'ravings' and please forgive me but I'm not sure that 'Endgame' will be an episode I could watch and enjoy as much as I have enjoyed all the others - the episode that follows that and speaks of his death may also be one I may be unable to watch (reverse phys? - if I don't watch it didn't happen!?) If your fertile imagination and massive creativilty could manage to 'save' Marcus for his many fans - I and all the others w/be eternally in your debt! It w/be enough to know that he was alive & well somewhere in the B5 universe fighting the darkness (and avail for any future stories/shows?) - thank you again for listening. Strive for the Light!

You're right in terms of what Garibaldi did and didn't do, and we've avoided the ultimate repercussions in other places for other things (he said vaguely, not wanting to post spoilers)...but you can only do that so far, and if you go further you start cheating. You also remove the dramatic impact of the actions of your characters if they do not have consequences. In this case, it ties very much into this character's background...and would, in another universe in which CC decided to stay, have spun out into some rather interesting developments.

jms

Fm: SCOTT MILLER

Now, you'll pardon me for being realistic, but I've got a show to run, and that means we have to have scripts ready 4-5 weeks prior to shooting<<

Surely you jest!

Did you not read the interview of Alexander Siddig (Dr. Bashir of DS9) on page 41 of the Sept. issue of Dreamwatch? He says (Re: his directorial debut) that each DS9 episode takes seven pre-production and seven production days, and that on the first day of pre-production, "Normally you don't have a script at that stage or even a working script. Maybe, as in our case, you might have the first act or the teaser plus some extra added tidbits."

Do you *really* expect us to believe that you don't just throw scripts together the day before shooting like the DS9 production staff apparently does?

Scott

Actually, this is the one area (since you brought it up) where we tend to shine. Our scripts are finalized usually 4 in advance of shooting, so the director has about a month to plan out his or her episode. We've found this makes all the difference in the world on budget, and the whole look of the show. The only changes that generally get made are in set locations, to make things easier for the art department. But beyond that, there aren't massive changes (often any changes) to dialogue, story, character, any of that; we rarely get past 2 drafts, and again, those are mainly for production reasons.

We've kind of fallen a bit behind this season, due to my back and other problems, but we're catching up again.

jms

Fm: SCOTT MILLER

"Our scripts are finalized usually 4 [weeks] in advance of shooting, so the director has about a month to plan out his or her episode. We've found this makes all the difference in the world on budget, and the whole look of the show."

All the more reason I can't fathom why other shows can't have scripts ready similarly early. After all, you're one man writing 20+ scripts per year (and putting in more than your fair share of hours each day, I'm sure), and these other shows have entire writing staffs to do a similar job. I hope you're getting paid time-and-a-half.

Scott

I will confess that there are momets when I'll be looking at an outside script with multiple names on it, and think, "It took TWO of you to write this?"

I think the reliance on big writing staffs is an error. It leads to the frequent creation of little "pocket universes" where each staffer has kind of his vision or version of the show, and because it's political at that level, nobody wants to step on anybody else's toes...and you get a very uneven show, where everyone's also pulling at everybody else's script, and delays result.

The best shows of the past tended to have one writer/producer or one story editor at the core of it, not big writing teams.

jms

This has been our clarion call for the last 4-5 years. I have felt strongly from the beginning that the more SF on television, the more there is competition, the less shows can rest on their laurels. Everybody will have to work hard to produce the best show possible when there is competition, and the ultimate beneficiary of that is the viewer.

jms

Noticed that little touch, did you....?

What goes around, comes around.

jms

I tried to do it through his lieutenants and plenepotentiaries (hope I spelled that right, I'm too tired to get the dictionary down). ISN gives you his point of view, ditto for Nightwatch, MiniPax, others. I think if I had him just saying it out loud, it would diminish him much the way that repeated exposure to the shadow vessels gradually removed their mystery and menace. Less is more.

jms

What's in Endgame, and most of Between... was always going to be there, with or without a 5th season. I made my trims in the period PRIOR TO these episodes, for the most part.

This is the culmination of something we've been building now for three years, and I'm going to make it as damned fast-paced as I can.

So don't go into this assuming it was rushed...it's *fast*, and that's the difference here.

People complain when we do character stories that the arc isn't moving fast enough...people complain that it's moving too fast when the arc is in full gear...sombody get a concensus going here, okay?

Now, to the other points, described as "flaws":

"The absolute worst was the business of smuggling the telepaths aboard the EA destroyers. You would have me believe that on 30 seperate ships, not one cargo handler or quartermaster would happen to notice the giant freezer cases with frozen bodies clearly visible through the glass? "

In something like this, you don't move unless you have the main quartermaster at the Mars base ON YOUR SIDE. You stuff it all into cargo loaders and crates, and ship it up. Have you ever seen military shipments? I looked into this, and security for big crates like this is done *at the point of shipping*. So that one's down.

"1) Marcus deserts to return to B5 to save Ivanova. Sheridan feels there is nothing that can be done because radio contact is not possible due to EA jamming. Why not detach a single Star Fury to get beyond jammer range and warn B5 via radio? Or send it dashing back to B5 to warn the staff in person?

Mega screw up. It just doesn't work. Sheridan would have immedietly authorized dispatch of a courier. Jammers are old technology and doctrine would dictate the use of couriers as a regular fallback."

Okay, here's where YOU'RE wrong. (If you can sit there and say that things are "mega-screwups" and say I "bit the big one" in places, you don't mind--can't mind--if I take same tone, do you?

You don't send a ship away to chase one person when you're going into a battle. You don't KNOW what ships you are and aren't going to need. In theory you took everything you had because you thought you needed it. Yeah, Marcus was a friend, but a lot of friends would die this day. You think he would put Marcus's situation ahead of the fleet? Isolate one ship and risk it to go after him? Ever been in the military? You talk about it, but what you propose doesn't make sense. Would Patton have sent back a tank because somebody fell behind? No.

The other point comes where you clearly misunderstood what was being said...massively misunderstood...bit the big one, one might say. To elaborate, since this touches a point above:

"2) The Agememnon is about to ram the defense grid satellite, conveying Sheridan and crew to certain doom. At the last moment, the Apollo saves the day. The General says "We were monitoring the situation" or words to that effect.

HOW??? No communication is possible through hyper space due to earth jamming. The Apollo is in Mars orbit,"

No, that's NOT what was said. The jammers are set up to cut off communication OUTSIDE MARS ORBIT. That's what was said, that the jammers cut in once they were past Mars (for security purposes). The same thing was said in Lines Of..., where Franklin was having a hard time getting word to B5 *past the Mars jammers*. Further, if all communications were cut off in Hyperspace, inside Mars orbit, then you couldn't have had ship-to-ship communications to tell Sheridan ABOUT Marcus, could you? No, you couldn't.

Do you know why you're seeing flaws that don't exist? Because you think it's rushed, so you're LOOKING for things, and actually misinterpreting things because of it.

"The effects of season compression are painfully evident"

No, what's evident...is that you're not paying attention.

And in future, you may want to phrsae things as questions, until you're absolutely sure what's opinion and what's fact, and be as polite in your comments as you would like me to be in my reply. Okay?

jms

>Trav1701 (trav1701@aol.com) wrote:
>: In article , larryc@teleport.com (Larry
>: Caldwell) writes:

>: >Yup.  Gotta be the dumbest line ever voiced on B5.  I guess Sheridan's
>: >lasers musta run out of bullets, so there's nothing for it but to stoke
>: >the boilers and send her to the bottom.  Ew, ik, retch, gag.

Y'know, you might actually want to see the episode, and put this in context, before calling it "the dumbest line ever voiced in B5" and making fun of "running out of bullets."

Spoiler info....

THEY KICKED THE SHIT OUT OF THE SHIP AND BLASTED IT WITH MISSILES AND THE ONLY THING HOLDING IT TOGETHER WAS BALING WIRE AND SPIT.

Now...next time...maybe you'll wait and actually *see* the thing before you judge something?

Or am I expecting too much?

Y'know...Morgan and Wong from X-Files used to be on the nets a lot, and they got out because they were driven to despair by the casual, callous cruelties of people who judge harshly and without any kind of information...Mira was on for a while, and isn't on anymore, because she says people are just casually cruel, they bitch about things that aren't even true half the time.

I know a lot of others, actors and producers, who just don't want to put up with this crap.

Some days, I don't blame them. Some days, I think I'd like to join them.

jms

Fm: PHILIP HORNSEY

My favorite line of the whole damn show was,

"God sent me."

Of course, that line required 4 years of prep. We had to see the EA first as a fine upstanding democratic goverment with one black mark, the slavery of Psi Corps (nice parallel to pre Civil War America). Then we see the powers of darkness, manifest in one slimy little man who thinks his own ego is more important than 484 years of shining sanity, pull it all apart thread by thread.

In the end there is not even a *fiction* that a free society exists. There is no Senate to impeach the President, and he himself is in unconditional breach of his oath of office. There can be no happy legal accomodation. No "real President" can stand up and order the good guys to put things right, the pathologically loyal military has to choke down the bitter pill of rebellion and *kill* everyone who stands with the guy the population elected (at least as VP) a couple of years before.

No question, the constitution is is tatters, it never contemplated an elected official of Executive status attempting a coup (after near 5 centuries of that being just *unthinkable*, who would?). Now the whole damn EA is in ruins, and some uniformed robot, wrapped in the flag, without the guts to look around and just say "sh!t, this is wrong", asks Ivonnova who she is.

Basically he says, "who the hell gave you the right to act against the supreme temporal authority, on whose behalf do you bring a fleet against me", and she replies,

"God sent me."

There is a school of thought among some libertarians that suggests that even if God doesn't exist, we *need* him to place some elements of natural law beyond the reach of the State. In the end, when we have to rise and slay a tyrant, we can answer him when he asks "How dare you rise, by what authority do you act against "civilization"". So we say...

"God sent me."

It is interesting that an athiest just made what is probably the best single argument for a general "official" belief in God.

It is nearly as interesting that another athiest then put forth the argument...

Phil^^^^

I think you just paraphrased most of the Book of Job....

jms

"Well, it is the best written book in the Bible."

Well...the best *story*, with some of the best writing...but there's stuff in Proverbs, Psalms, and the Song of Solomon (which sometimes gets a bit over-written and racy) that can give it a run for its money.

There was some good writing back in the old testament...before it got all showbiz and high-concept....

jms

It's interesting when that happens. There's a halo around Sheridan's head at one point when he's yelling at Delenn in the big room in "Z'ha'dum," and, just as a pointer to something you won't see for another year....

When I was directing "Sleeping in Light," there's a scene with Sheridan and a mirror. (That's all I'll say about it, so there's no spoiler info there.) As John Flinn lit the shot, and angled the mirror...I froze at what I was seeing on the monitor. I called John over, and pointed to it. "Do you see what I see?" It took him a moment, but then his eyes went wide, and by his own reckoning, "the skin on my arms crawled." He turned to the guys dressing the set and said, in a very loud, clear voice, "NOBODY TOUCHES THAT MIRROR! YOU HEAR ME!? NOBODY!"

It's not a big...but it's a pretty cool unintended illusion (though once we saw it, we kept it).

jms

From: bknight255@aol.com (BKnight255)

Without getting into too much detail, did anybody find Susan's speech before engaging the enemy a bit ... much?

Granted, she was about to re-enact the Charge of the Light Brigade, but it struck me as just a touch over-dramatic. "I am the right hand of vengeance ... God sent me"?

I'm not one to normally nitpick, and the rest of the episode had my jaw on the carpet, but did anybody else find that one speech a little over the top?

Bruce Knight
bknight255@aol.com
"The word 'impossible' ... is to be found only in a dictionary of fools."

Yeah, it was a bit over the top, deliberately so.

I put it in the category of a boxer who's going up against an opponent who may be well matched...and wants to psych the other person out.

If you look at "Give me liberty or give me death!" or similar statements, made to rally support or make a point, they're generally bigger than life, a bit over the top. That's so we can know where the top is so we can climb up there ourselves.

jms

Exactly..it doesn't *end* the story, as people kept saying, "Oh, the arc is being finished in year 4," it provides a sense of *resolution*, which is different altogether, and leaves plenty of room for other planned stuff.

jms

"Given the fact that TNT is putting much more into supporting and promoting the show for the final season, do you regret that this kind of support has not been there for the previous four seasons? I know that you have had minimal trouble with WB creatively, but they really didn't *support* the show as well as they could have. Do you think that the hands-off approach made the show better by making you work harder?"

This is about as much a deal with the devil as I can imagine.

But on the whole, without getting into specifics...the truth is that this show is going to be around for 20, 30, maybe even 50 years, if I did it right. 30 years from now, it won't make any difference if we got good PR or we didn't, if we were well received when we first went on or not...the story is the story, and I was allowed, most remarkably, to tell it my way, with virtually no creative interference, and that will be noted in years to come, not the rest.

I'd take that deal again in a hot second.

jms

This was something I debated back and forth for quite some time. I finally came to the idea of having it happen off-camera because I thought, frankly, that it would come off as corny to show it; it would be an obvious appeal to ratings and the like, and I tend to shy away from that.

jms

I don't quite understand the question...all of the show, every single shot, CGI or live-action, is spelled out in the script, which is given to the various departments to make it happen.

The best way I can demonstrate this is if you want to go to your local library and find a copy of my writing book, and check the script for The Coming of Shadows against the episode.

"2. How much of the final product is like what you have imagined?? More? Less? Do you ever change the layout of an episode BECAUSE of the finished visuals?"

It's generally 80-110% of what I saw in my head. Sometimes I'll shift around the scenes to better the flow of an episode once we see how they look on film.

jms

Yes, EST = GMT.

And this episode wasn't rushed; it's what you do when you're bringing any story to its climax. It's like watching Aliens, going away before the last 20 minutes, coming back and saying, "Well, it moved awfully fast." It has to, you're in the big moment. No, there isn't time for everything, there is NEVER time for everything, there's always stuff we might want to see...but what's in Endgame is what was always going to be in Endgame. If I'd known there would be a 5th season at the time, I still would've written it exactly the way it was written.

The collapsing was done for the most part *long* before we ever got to this part of the season.

It's just fast because that's what you need to do at this point.

jms

Difference is, this is a continuing storyline, and so I think you do need to have the occasional bit of exposition in there for the folks who don't (or can't) watch and track every single episode. You should be able to come in at any point in the story, and watch an episode, and get something satisfying out of it.

Doesn't really have anything to do with the time slot, it has to do with being fair to the majority of the audience.

jms